| User |
Message |
Phedre_D
GameAmp Staff
Posts: 376
Joined: 05/09/2005
Credibility: 4923 pts
|
| An MMORPG without fighting at all? |
|
|
|
Yesterday I was grinding away on some ghosts for my shadowhound and my mind wandered off. I started thinking why I play any MMORPG. It was definitely not for killing 50 ghosts. I concluded it is for the fun of doing something with other people, and discovering new worlds and adventures. The fact I have to kill/slash up things is probably just there to give it all a bit of direction. But would it be possible to make an MMORPG where I don't have to kill anything?
Then I realized that the diplomacy in Vanguard is actually that. But the problem with that is that you basically have to do that solo. So I started thinking what can we do in a group other then killing things, and my mind was blank. Does that mean the only thing us humans can do together cooperative is killing? Or is that the only thing that can be translated to a game concept? There must be something out there that is not violence related ...
|
| 05/23/07 10:47 |
Login to rate this user's post! |
Tyrlien
Posts: 113
Joined: 01/26/2007
Credibility: 580 pts
|
| RE: An MMORPG without fighting at all? |
|
|
|
Do you mean like A Tale in the Desert? I don't know much about that game, only what I've read on MMORPG.com Furcadia too is a non-combat game that my son has played in the past.
Tyrlien Darkwynd
Skara Brae Guild - Co-Leader
Everquest 2 - Half Elf Swashbuckler
Vanguard - Half Elf Rogue
|
| 05/23/07 13:02 |
Login to rate this user's post! |
blackphoenix
Posts: 269
Joined: 09/23/2005
Credibility: 1180 pts
|
| RE: An MMORPG without fighting at all? |
|
|
|
An mmo without fighting? Hmm, sounds like it would be something similar to Second Life. Well, that's just one example of what it could be.
You have to think about what exactly an mmo is. Basically, it's a string of tasks that you have to complete that provide opportunities for eye candy, story advancement, and/or becoming a more powerful character. I think if you can provide all those things in a game that doesn't require killing anything, then I bet it would at least turn a profit.
Let's see, what could we do with Vanguard to make it like this?
- Remove all the hostile NPCs from the game.
- Repopulate areas with animals that are killable for crafting resources only, as well as more harvestable resources.
- Adjust the rules so that if a player (or group in group harvesting) is caught killing anything and not harvesting it's skin etc.. by a \"game warden\" the player is fined/jailed/penalized
- Rework the diplomacy system (yet again) to allow group diplomacy
- Do away with developer established towns altogether and rely solely on player built towns, outposts, and shops that were crafted utilizing the crafting system
- Shift the game empasis from character level to something else, perhaps world area explored or total money earned, or total diplomatic respect earned
Just a few thoughts there to get started.
|
| 05/23/07 13:12 |
Login to rate this user's post! |
Weahawk
Posts: 42
Joined: 03/12/2007
Credibility: 275 pts
|
| RE: An MMORPG without fighting at all? |
|
|
|
I'm doing that damnable shadowhound quest also... sheesh!!! There are several Non Combat games one that comes to mind is Sims online... but there you are painting wooden gnomes allday...BORING! You could allways mine ore and wood and stone you get a bonus for doing it with groups and if you play a stealther class or have some invso gear you can bypass most mobs... justa thought not to mention the coin is good.
|
| 05/23/07 15:35 |
Login to rate this user's post! |
lani
GameAmp Staff
Posts: 173
Joined: 09/08/2005
Credibility: 2151 pts
|
| RE: An MMORPG without fighting at all? |
|
|
|
He he. I think I know exactly how you feel Phe. It's why I've been categorically refuse to start on and/or help with thos frigging Prestige mount Quests.
The thing is, as mindless grinds of violence go, as a 3d gen game, Vanguard is a lot less polished about hiding the grind than the 2nd gen game an those Mount Quests are amongst some of the grindiest things to do in game.
I think if you, Phe, were to take Richard Bartle's Test of Gamer psychology / Personality, you'd end up pretty close to my score of ESAK (Explorer > Socializer > Achiever > Killer). But picking up the mount quest would put you in an ASEK role. Achievement.
I'm not against violence in MMORPG's I'm one of the people who say that it was a great blessing to the world when id software introduced the Double-Barrel Shotgun as a stress reduction tool. Way more effective, and way more affordable than all the psychiatric or psychological help attempting to affect the same.
I do feel that violence, fighting mobs, doesn't have to be the main core element of an MMORPG. It wasn't for a long time for SWG, or so I hear. Well, it didn't have to be. But humans, players, being what they are (showing a distinct need/desire for bloodshed for entertainment purposes over the last 3500 years) they made it that way regardless.
I'd much rather see it at a level as I'm experiencing it myself now. I'm mostly doing Diplomacy now, waiting for Soeni and Ivei to catch up, but when the High Elves of leth Nurae have brought up the killing urge, I go to the lovely locale of Frosthshard Lake to do some harvesting. I will be occasionally interrupted by a Mountain Lion, a Hill Troll, a wandering Wyvern or even a Giant. Those are pretty tough battles, them being 4-5 levels above me and frequently 3-dotters to boot. I'm not there grinding my way through them though. They're something that occasionally happens and has a nice Risk vs Reward element to it.
Of course, I'd love to 'assualt' the Giant Strongholds with a select group of stalward allies at some point. But I wouldn't want to do that 5 times in a row. Especially not for the XP. As it is, I think Vanguard offers a lot to the less violence inclined amongst us. You just have to pay attention to things.
If even the Hard Core Achievement Killer players are complaining about something being a mindless grind, a Socializing Explorer should really consider her options and if she really wants that Hound of Evil, the Shadowhound or the Symbol of Purity (cough) the Unicorn. Achieving either mount signifies you were willing to travel all across the world of Telon, met interesting people and killed them and their families.
On a side note. This also brought to mind an interesting blog about transgressive gaming with an emphasize on griefing.
Just putting it in here because I made a very long post and lost track of what my point was going to be. So this way it may look semi-intelligent.
|
| 05/23/07 16:49 |
Login to rate this user's post! |
Phedre_D
GameAmp Staff
Posts: 376
Joined: 05/09/2005
Credibility: 4923 pts
|
| RE: An MMORPG without fighting at all? |
|
|
|
Thanks for all the responses! Great to see everybody has been thinking about this issue one way or the other. But of course what I want is more Utopia.
But let me start off by saying I love Vanguard and I am not considering leaving. There is so much greatness in the game. Including the shadowhound quest storyline. And the fact it already took me places I have not been before.
Lani is right that I am a serious ESAK, or even better an ESAk. And maybe what I was aiming for is being an ESA. I have actually no real issue grinding the ghosts for the shadowhound quest. I like crafting as well, and that is much more a grinding job than the shadowhound quest. I think it is really the killing part. I have joked here before how I felt bad about slaughtering the foreign merchants camp outside Hathor Zhi to make friends with the Dark Elves. And the same goes for these ghosts. It really felt like killing for the sake of killing. And that triggered me to start this thread.
I haven't actually played Second Life, Sims Online or Furcadia, but to me they all seem to be virtual chat boxes. I guess there is nothing wrong with that, but if it is just about socializing I can use real life and GameAmp.
I should read up on some of the other games suggested, and hopefully it will change my dark view of the world.
The GameAmp Noobz Household!
|
| 05/24/07 04:50 |
Login to rate this user's post! |
lani
GameAmp Staff
Posts: 173
Joined: 09/08/2005
Credibility: 2151 pts
|
| RE: An MMORPG without fighting at all? |
|
|
|
| QUOTE | | I haven't actually played Second Life, Sims Online or Furcadia, but to me they all seem to be virtual chat boxes. I guess there is nothing wrong with that, but if it is just about socializing I can use real life and GameAmp. |
I think you're touching a core issue here. Most of those games are but virtual chatboxes.
Violence / killing in the mainstream MMORPGs is there for a two reasons:
A) Violence sells better than sex.
B) The Risk vs Reward tension and thrill of a fight is a very important aspect of games. It's very hard to make a game (that sells) that does not incorporate this aspect.
Most MMOG's that did/tried are indeed mostly virtual chat-boxes. They do exist though, and some are successful. Second Life is part virtual chat box, part virtual Real Estate Empire making big bucks these days. Project Entropia might be closer to your Utopia though. Note that these both incorporate RMT (Real Money Transfer) as part of the gaming experience. It might be safe to say that the Risk vs Reward tension of putting money on the line gives somewhat of the same thrill as putting your virtual life at risk. Or at least scratches a similar itch.
|
| 05/24/07 05:54 |
Login to rate this user's post! |
blackphoenix
Posts: 269
Joined: 09/23/2005
Credibility: 1180 pts
|
| RE: An MMORPG without fighting at all? |
|
|
|
Thanks lani for that survey link. Looks like I'm about where I thought I'd be.
| QUOTE | Based on your answers, you are EAKS.
Breakdown: Achiever 66.67%, Explorer 93.33%, Killer 33.33%, Socializer 6.67% |
I don't mind the killing so much. Maybe I've just desensitized myself to it. I would still never kill anyone in real life though. I suppose I could if I had to, self-defense and all that, but everyone deserves just as much chance at life as anyone else.
That's not to say I don't support the death penalty. If someone kills someone else intentionally then they've forfeit their their own life as well. You know, an eye for an eye and all that.
And off topic, this is why I have such a hard time finding my niche in these kind of games. This fits me pretty accuratly, minus the socializing part.
| QUOTE | Based on your answers, you are Creator-Supporter.
This combination is also referred to as the Quartermaster playstyle.
You have fun when you make the game fun for others. You tend to be fairly social, and you've taken the time to learn how to make things for other players, and you're interested in playing roles that allow you to support groups. You've been known to work on creating things inside games, only to give them away to help their friends. |
I have yet to find a supporting role character class that solos well in any game and still plays the way I want to play. I guess I'm just too picky.
***THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED***
|
| 05/24/07 07:35 |
Login to rate this user's post! |
Grifter0408
GameAmp Staff
Site Manager
Posts: 10
Joined: 11/30/2004
Credibility: 25 pts
|
| RE: An MMORPG without fighting at all? |
|
|
|
Ok so I had already talked to Phe about this but since I was able to find an official site for it then I will post it. Dont ask me how I found out about this but I just did. But in theory it sounds interesting to learn some of the information they come across in the end of the study. Of all MMOs I have thought of I never even considered this as a possible game.
Move over Ariel....
Yeah you saw the site right, I am more interested in the study itself.....but I want in beta....sorry force of habit with any game...ha.....ha? Ok...Im going to go take a bath with some flippers on.....(sigh).....
|
| 05/24/07 15:30 |
Login to rate this user's post! |
MikesterBrau
GameAmp Staff
Posts: 184
Joined: 10/27/2006
Credibility: 314 pts
|
| RE: An MMORPG without fighting at all? |
|
|
|
ooo what a wonderfully esoteric discourse... I think this has been attempted a few times but right now it is probably hard to pitch the business case for a non traditional MMORPG would probably be difficult. Second Life is the only MMORPG of this type to be a commercial succes as far as I know. Have hope though I bet one of the console makers is most likely working on something like this as an offering over one of their captive nets.
Founder of Skara Brae (Meta) Guild
http://everquest2.gameamp.com
Skara Brae Main Page: http://www.bardstavern.net
Sig by Tyrlien
|
| 05/24/07 15:55 |
Login to rate this user's post! |
lani
GameAmp Staff
Posts: 173
Joined: 09/08/2005
Credibility: 2151 pts
|
| RE: An MMORPG without fighting at all? |
|
|
|
| QUOTE | | Yeah you saw the site right, I am more interested in the study itself.....but I want in beta....sorry force of habit with any game...ha.....ha? Ok...Im going to go take a bath with some flippers on.....(sigh)..... |
It's ok Griff. I like mermaids too :-)
Definitely something to keep an eye on. And yeah, see you in Beta noob!!! ;-)
So, is there going to be a PVP server? :-D
I remember reading the Gamasutra article linked to in the side bar. I'd read over the Mermaid game though. Probably because it sounded more like a mmog for girls in there than on the EGG site itself. It's very interesting in many ways.
- Letting go of levels & points.
- Focusing on true cooperative aspects.
- Another focus on constructive gameplay rather than destructive.
- Educational value. e.t.c. e.t.c.
Thanks for pointing it out.
|
| 05/25/07 04:18 |
Login to rate this user's post! |
